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	<title>Comments on: Let’s Set the Record Straight</title>
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	<link>http://claypeck.com/2009/07/05/let%e2%80%99s-set-the-record-straight/</link>
	<description>Thoughts from Clay</description>
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		<title>By: accounting services</title>
		<link>http://claypeck.com/2009/07/05/let%e2%80%99s-set-the-record-straight/comment-page-1/#comment-2388</link>
		<dc:creator>accounting services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2011 13:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;accounting services...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...]Let’s Set the Record Straight &#124; claypeck.com[...]...</description>
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<p><strong>accounting services&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...]Let’s Set the Record Straight | claypeck.com[...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: non the thao&#124; non ket nam&#124; mu luoi trai</title>
		<link>http://claypeck.com/2009/07/05/let%e2%80%99s-set-the-record-straight/comment-page-1/#comment-2387</link>
		<dc:creator>non the thao&#124; non ket nam&#124; mu luoi trai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://claypeck.com/?p=383#comment-2387</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;non the thao&#124; non ket nam&#124; mu luoi trai...&lt;/strong&gt;

[...]Let’s Set the Record Straight &#124; claypeck.com[...]...</description>
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<p><strong>non the thao| non ket nam| mu luoi trai&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...]Let’s Set the Record Straight | claypeck.com[...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: clay</title>
		<link>http://claypeck.com/2009/07/05/let%e2%80%99s-set-the-record-straight/comment-page-1/#comment-2012</link>
		<dc:creator>clay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If you watch the extended message at www.graceplace.org, you&#039;ll note that I mentioned that neither Jefferson or Franklin were orthodox Christians and were not participating in organized religion... but there are more quotes in the resources I mentioned that show their believe in God and respect for Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you watch the extended message at <a href="http://www.graceplace.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.graceplace.org</a>, you&#8217;ll note that I mentioned that neither Jefferson or Franklin were orthodox Christians and were not participating in organized religion&#8230; but there are more quotes in the resources I mentioned that show their believe in God and respect for Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://claypeck.com/2009/07/05/let%e2%80%99s-set-the-record-straight/comment-page-1/#comment-1989</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 08:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I found your post very interesting...Just wondering where you found that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin:  &quot;believed in the Bible as Divine truth, the God of Scripture, and in His personal intervention.&quot;  Wondering if you are aware of these quotes?

Thomas Jefferson- “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”

Benjamin Franklin- “Lighthouses are more useful then churches.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your post very interesting&#8230;Just wondering where you found that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin:  &#8220;believed in the Bible as Divine truth, the God of Scripture, and in His personal intervention.&#8221;  Wondering if you are aware of these quotes?</p>
<p>Thomas Jefferson- “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”</p>
<p>Benjamin Franklin- “Lighthouses are more useful then churches.”</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Indeap</title>
		<link>http://claypeck.com/2009/07/05/let%e2%80%99s-set-the-record-straight/comment-page-1/#comment-1987</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Indeap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Let&#039;s set the record straight:

1.  The quotation of Patrick Henry you offer is fake.  See http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/fake_patrick_henry_quote_found.php#more

2.  The so-called review of 15,000 documents by founders and the conclusions you would draw from it have long since been debunked.  See http://uncommonliberty.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-much-did-founders-quote-bible.html

3.  Even if the founders had quoted the Bible as much as you suppose, your conclusion is a non sequitur.  However much the founders quoted the Bible, it simply does not follow that the Constitution was based on the &quot;principles of Scripture.&quot;  It is entirely possible for thoroughly religious folk to found a secular government.  Indeed, regardless of the religiosity vel non of individual founders, the fact is that they did just that, as is clear from the Constitution which expressly founds the government on the power of the people (not a deity) and says nothing substantive of god(s) or religion except in the First Amendment where the point is to confirm that each person enjoys religious liberty and that the government is not to establish religion and another provision precluding any religious test for public office.

4.  In direct conflict with your unsubstantiated assertion of the founders&#039; intent, Jefferson and Madison, founders, expressly stated that the Constitution was intended to keep government and religion separate.  

5.  You correctly note, but make far too much of the fact that the phrase “separation of church and state” does not appear in the Constitution.  It is but a metaphor commonly used to describe the underlying principle of the no-establishment-of-religion and free-exercise-of-religion clauses of the First Amendment and the no-religious-test-for-public-office clause of the Constitution.  The absence of the phrase in the text of the Constitution assumes much importance, it seems, only to those who may have once labored under the misimpression the words appeared there and later learned of their mistake.  To those familiar with the Constitution, the absence of the metaphor commonly used to describe one of its principles is inconsequential--no more consequential than the absence of other phrases (e.g., Bill of Rights, separation of powers, checks and balances, fair trial, religious liberty) used to describe other undoubted Constitutional principles.

6.  The 1854 resolution of Congress is but political rhetoric--rhetoric, indeed, contrary to the principles of the Constitution.  It poses a false dichotomy and then shamelessly panders to Christian constituents.  Contrary to the resolution&#039;s supposition, the principle of separation of church and state does not call for spreading atheism.  The First Amendment embodies the simple, just idea that each of us should be free to exercise his or her religious views without expecting that the government will endorse or promote those views and without fearing that the government will endorse or promote the religious views of others.  By keeping government and religion separate, the establishment clause serves to protect the freedom of all to exercise their religion.

Reasonable people may differ, of course, on how these principles should be applied in particular situations, but the principles are hardly to be doubted.  Moreover, they are good, sound principles that should be nurtured and defended, not attacked.  Efforts to transform our secular government into some form of religion-government partnership should be resisted by every patriot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s set the record straight:</p>
<p>1.  The quotation of Patrick Henry you offer is fake.  See <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/fake_patrick_henry_quote_found.php#more" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/fake_patrick_henry_quote_found.php#more</a></p>
<p>2.  The so-called review of 15,000 documents by founders and the conclusions you would draw from it have long since been debunked.  See <a href="http://uncommonliberty.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-much-did-founders-quote-bible.html" rel="nofollow">http://uncommonliberty.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-much-did-founders-quote-bible.html</a></p>
<p>3.  Even if the founders had quoted the Bible as much as you suppose, your conclusion is a non sequitur.  However much the founders quoted the Bible, it simply does not follow that the Constitution was based on the &#8220;principles of Scripture.&#8221;  It is entirely possible for thoroughly religious folk to found a secular government.  Indeed, regardless of the religiosity vel non of individual founders, the fact is that they did just that, as is clear from the Constitution which expressly founds the government on the power of the people (not a deity) and says nothing substantive of god(s) or religion except in the First Amendment where the point is to confirm that each person enjoys religious liberty and that the government is not to establish religion and another provision precluding any religious test for public office.</p>
<p>4.  In direct conflict with your unsubstantiated assertion of the founders&#8217; intent, Jefferson and Madison, founders, expressly stated that the Constitution was intended to keep government and religion separate.  </p>
<p>5.  You correctly note, but make far too much of the fact that the phrase “separation of church and state” does not appear in the Constitution.  It is but a metaphor commonly used to describe the underlying principle of the no-establishment-of-religion and free-exercise-of-religion clauses of the First Amendment and the no-religious-test-for-public-office clause of the Constitution.  The absence of the phrase in the text of the Constitution assumes much importance, it seems, only to those who may have once labored under the misimpression the words appeared there and later learned of their mistake.  To those familiar with the Constitution, the absence of the metaphor commonly used to describe one of its principles is inconsequential&#8211;no more consequential than the absence of other phrases (e.g., Bill of Rights, separation of powers, checks and balances, fair trial, religious liberty) used to describe other undoubted Constitutional principles.</p>
<p>6.  The 1854 resolution of Congress is but political rhetoric&#8211;rhetoric, indeed, contrary to the principles of the Constitution.  It poses a false dichotomy and then shamelessly panders to Christian constituents.  Contrary to the resolution&#8217;s supposition, the principle of separation of church and state does not call for spreading atheism.  The First Amendment embodies the simple, just idea that each of us should be free to exercise his or her religious views without expecting that the government will endorse or promote those views and without fearing that the government will endorse or promote the religious views of others.  By keeping government and religion separate, the establishment clause serves to protect the freedom of all to exercise their religion.</p>
<p>Reasonable people may differ, of course, on how these principles should be applied in particular situations, but the principles are hardly to be doubted.  Moreover, they are good, sound principles that should be nurtured and defended, not attacked.  Efforts to transform our secular government into some form of religion-government partnership should be resisted by every patriot.</p>
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